StreetBallTalk.com

wongkey · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 12:42 PM

Age: 21
Height: 5’11 and ¾’s
Reach: 7’8
Current Standing Vert: 28 – 30inches (touch 10-10’2)
Current Running Vert: 34 inches (touch 10’5)
Goal Standing Vert: 33 – 36 inches (touch 10’3-5)
Goal Running Vert: 37 inches by 3/29/08 and 40 and up by 4/29/08
Weight: 182lbs (my goal is to be 165 – 170)
Bench: 210lbs (goal is to bench 225)
Squat: 315lbs (goal is to squat around 365)
Sumo Deadlift: 315lbs (goal is to deadlift around 365)

I don’t have very long arms as you can tell my standing reach and I can’t palm a basketball to save my life hahaha…This is how my training schedule looks like.
Sunday: Running 30mins
Monday: Running 30mins
Tuesday: Workout legs and shoulders
Legs: Squats 135lbs 2x10; 225 2x7; 275 1x3; 315 1x2
Lunges mixed with side split squats (I use dumbbells) 25lbs. 3x5; 30lbs 2x3
One leg dumbbell squat: 30lbs 2x10; 50lbs 3x6 (I’m still testing my 1RM with this)
Step Ups: 50lbs 2x10; 65lbs 2x5
I’m not going to post up any of my upper body exercises because I am trying to put more emphasis on my legs.
Wednesday: Running 30 mins
Thursday: Running
Friday: Light Run and Plyometrics
Squat Hops: 3x10
Single Leg ankle hops: 3x15
Suicides: 3 – 5
Saturday: Rest
Whew that was long, but now I have some questions. The approach I am taking to increasing my vertical is by losing body fat and maintaining strength. That way I don’t need to expend as much force as I normally would if I was heavier. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not overweight or anything, but I could trim this small tire off of my stomach. However I am concerned with the approach I am taking to increase my vertical. I have read on numerous sites that doing too much cardio will turn my fast twitch fibers into slow twitch fibers, hence lowering my vertical. But cardio is the best way to go when losing body fat right? Should I substitute some of my cardio days into high interval training sessions? Should I do more ploymetrics or should I work out my legs more? I also stretch everyday and eat very healthy. My diet consists of egg whites, milk and green tea in the morning, a sandwich and fruit for lunch, salad with tuna for a snack, and chicken to end the day. I am perplexed as to how I should go about gaining vert. Should I try to build more strength and then lose my weight? I would appreciate any opinions on how to rework my training regime and any other ways to increase my vert. I don’t have jump soles, are they really that good? I have heard that your calves only account for like 5-10% when it comes to jumping. Thanks for all of the help! I’ll keep you guys updated on my gains/losses.

redsoxfan15 · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 01:27 PM

ok everything you said is correct. and yes switch cardio with HIT. also try managing your week for HIT plyos and strength training.

HIT(high intensity training)

plyos(plyometrics)

wongkey · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxfan15

ok everything you said is correct. and yes switch cardio with HIT. also try managing your week for HIT plyos and strength training.

HIT(high intensity training)

plyos(plyometrics)

So does that mean I should stop cardio all together? And with the HIT could I just run sprints? Sometimes when I go out for my run (approx. 2miles) on the way back (1mile) I'll sprint for a good 7-10seconds and then jog/walk for 15-20seconds and alternate until I get home. Is that good enough? I don't have a gym or anything so I have to do my running outside, and the reason why I can't really sprint all the time is because of all of the ice around the roads and sidewalks. Also when you're telling me to manage my week with plyos does that mean I need to do my plyos more often? And if so how many times a week should I be doing it? Also is my plyo program good enough, or do I need to add more exercises with my plyo program. Redsoxfan15, I see that you are very well respected on this site and any more opinions and suggestions would be AWESOME!...thanks!

ibetan · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 04:57 PM

instead of jogging for cardio, do sprints/suicides backwords and forwards. This will make you more explosive also and break a sweat.

RoflDogs · #5 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 05:35 PM

wow.... you schedule is pretty tight O_O..... just sprint from one side of the street to the other or something......

basicalyl like all the others said.... suicides...

wongkey · #6 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflDogs

wow.... you schedule is pretty tight O_O..... just sprint from one side of the street to the other or something......

basicalyl like all the others said.... suicides...

Yea...it is, I've got school and work...actually on thursdays I work out my upper body. Well anyhoo, what did you guys think of the plyometrics? Should I add more plyo exercises or keep it at that? Open to any suggestions. I'll probably do half the amount of cardio posted and replace it with sprints. The only thing I am worried about however is the fact that I run/sprint early in the morning when I first wake up. I have heard tons of positives and negatives about this. I've heard that any cardio in the morning eats away at your muscles due to the fact that there is nothing in your body to use as energy but your muscles. I've also heard that running in the morning is the best, due to the fact that your glycogen levels are low, therefore your body immediately accesses your body fat as energy. I'm confused, I want a good workout, but I don't want to have to sacrifice my strength for speed. Any suggestions? BTW I can only run in the morning most of the time.

bluegreyhound · #7 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wongkey

Age: 21
Height: 5’11 and ¾’s
Reach: 7’8
Current Standing Vert: 28 – 30inches (touch 10-10’2)
Current Running Vert: 34 inches (touch 10’5)
Goal Standing Vert: 33 – 36 inches (touch 10’3-5)
Goal Running Vert: 37 inches by 3/29/08 and 40 and up by 4/29/08
Weight: 182lbs (my goal is to be 165 – 170)
Bench: 210lbs (goal is to bench 225)
Squat: 315lbs (goal is to squat around 365)
Sumo Deadlift: 315lbs (goal is to deadlift around 365)

I don’t have very long arms as you can tell my standing reach and I can’t palm a basketball to save my life hahaha…This is how my training schedule looks like.
Sunday: Running 30mins
Monday: Running 30mins
Tuesday: Workout legs and shoulders
Legs: Squats 135lbs 2x10; 225 2x7; 275 1x3; 315 1x2
Lunges mixed with side split squats (I use dumbbells) 25lbs. 3x5; 30lbs 2x3
One leg dumbbell squat: 30lbs 2x10; 50lbs 3x6 (I’m still testing my 1RM with this)
Step Ups: 50lbs 2x10; 65lbs 2x5
I’m not going to post up any of my upper body exercises because I am trying to put more emphasis on my legs.
Wednesday: Running 30 mins
Thursday: Running
Friday: Light Run and Plyometrics
Squat Hops: 3x10
Single Leg ankle hops: 3x15
Suicides: 3 – 5
Saturday: Rest
Whew that was long, but now I have some questions. The approach I am taking to increasing my vertical is by losing body fat and maintaining strength. That way I don’t need to expend as much force as I normally would if I was heavier. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not overweight or anything, but I could trim this small tire off of my stomach. However I am concerned with the approach I am taking to increase my vertical. I have read on numerous sites that doing too much cardio will turn my fast twitch fibers into slow twitch fibers, hence lowering my vertical. But cardio is the best way to go when losing body fat right? Should I substitute some of my cardio days into high interval training sessions? Should I do more ploymetrics or should I work out my legs more? I also stretch everyday and eat very healthy. My diet consists of egg whites, milk and green tea in the morning, a sandwich and fruit for lunch, salad with tuna for a snack, and chicken to end the day. I am perplexed as to how I should go about gaining vert. Should I try to build more strength and then lose my weight? I would appreciate any opinions on how to rework my training regime and any other ways to increase my vert. I don’t have jump soles, are they really that good? I have heard that your calves only account for like 5-10% when it comes to jumping. Thanks for all of the help! I’ll keep you guys updated on my gains/losses.

Nice stats man.

My own view is that cardio does hurt your vert from a muscle fibre make-up point of view. That said, if you lose lots of weight as a result it you could still benefit as a result in the medium to long term. For running though, I'd opt for more intensive running e.g. hill running, rather than go for distance while jogging.

In a bit of a rush but I'll give my two cents here. You should try a few things to see what is best for you. Put phases (e.g. strength, weight loss) into your plan and try whatever program best suits that purpose. Or alternatively you could try a mixture of power/dynamic days mixed in with max effort days. This is similar to westside barbell type training however you won't necessarily be going for all out maximum power output on your dynamic days (i.e. increased workload at the expense of all out power, burns more calories and excites your CNS). Continue with your light intensity pylos while lifting as it will be important for later on.

Oh, and having strong calves and feet are important for jumping. They are needed to stabilise etc the forces involved in jumping. You should focus in particular on full ROM (i.e. right up to full ankle extension).

Good luck!

wongkey · #8 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreyhound

Nice stats man.

My own view is that cardio does hurt your vert from a muscle fibre make-up point of view. That said, if you lose lots of weight as a result it you could still benefit as a result in the medium to long term. For running though, I'd opt for more intensive running e.g. hill running, rather than go for distance while jogging.

In a bit of a rush but I'll give my two cents here. You should try a few things to see what is best for you. Put phases (e.g. strength, weight loss) into your plan and try whatever program best suits that purpose. Or alternatively you could try a mixture of power/dynamic days mixed in with max effort days. This is similar to westside barbell type training however you won't necessarily be going for all out maximum power output on your dynamic days (i.e. increased workload at the expense of all out power, burns more calories and excites your CNS). Continue with your light intensity pylos while lifting as it will be important for later on.

Oh, and having strong calves and feet are important for jumping. They are needed to stabilise etc the forces involved in jumping. You should focus in particular on full ROM (i.e. right up to full ankle extension).

Good luck!

Thanks, on your opinion. I'm gonna test out switching some of my cardio days with sprint days. I'm just worried that maybe having half sprint days and half cardio days will make my legs too sore, and it might hinder my leg workout on Tuesdays. With my workouts I usually end every workout with a set of burnouts. I'm just confused with whether to train for maximum strength now or if I should try to drop weight to 160ish. The way I see it is, if I can drop my weight to around 160 and maintain a squat of 315ish, then I'm squatting twice my weight. If i train for strength then I'll probably end up gaining some weight due to the excessive amounts of calories i'll need to get stronger. But like I said before, I guess i'll just have more sprinting type workouts then regular cardio running days. Thanks bluegreyhound!

bluegreyhound · #9 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wongkey

Thanks, on your opinion. I'm gonna test out switching some of my cardio days with sprint days. I'm just worried that maybe having half sprint days and half cardio days will make my legs too sore, and it might hinder my leg workout on Tuesdays. With my workouts I usually end every workout with a set of burnouts. I'm just confused with whether to train for maximum strength now or if I should try to drop weight to 160ish. The way I see it is, if I can drop my weight to around 160 and maintain a squat of 315ish, then I'm squatting twice my weight. If i train for strength then I'll probably end up gaining some weight due to the excessive amounts of calories i'll need to get stronger. But like I said before, I guess i'll just have more sprinting type workouts then regular cardio running days. Thanks bluegreyhound!

I guess that you are not a real beginner so you could try...

1) On max effort lift days, bias your training towards CNS training (low to medium work volume, 85%-95% 1RM). You won't be that sore from this and your strength should be maintained somewhat.

2) On dynamic days, do runs at around 70% of your top speed (flats mized up with hills). Relatively high volume (hence the lower intensity) so as to burn up more calories. If you want you can precede the runs with some speed work using squats and deadlift variations. Focus on power, although since you are trying to lose weight the workload is going to be higher and not really optimal for pure power.

3) Do the above for say 6- 8 weeks and see what weight you have lost. If you want to lose more weight at a faster rate you could drop the max effort for a few weeks and do more sprints and cardio.

4) Try to ensure that you train as much of the whole body as you can and as frequently as you can without being too sore. The first week or so will be a real bitch, but your body will adapt and fight through it. Your legs can take a real punishing too as long as you don't do too much running too frequently. Personally, I don't need to lost weight. I was last training legs 3 times a week and playing ball last year; I was only sore for about 36 hrs or so with slow and steady progression of the weights.

BTE you should message johndecena for more detailed info on cutting etc.. He knows more than me about this.

johndecena · #10 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 12:18 AM

Well, there are a lot of questions there, I'll start with the running issue. Number one, I don't recommend running, just because of the impact on your knees. I run enough when I play ball. If you must run, the morning is the best time. When you sleep your body "refills" the fluid in your joints and vertebrae. Therefore, you will do less damage to your knees and back. Second, if you run long distance, you will do harm to your vert and explosion. I use the example of cross country runners do not jump high. Now, sprinters have the explosion you are looking for. I would recommend riding a bike, exercycle, or eliptical... but that's just my opinion because I still want my knees healthy when I'm older.

As far as losing weight and gaining muscle, you need to work in cycles. I would suggest gaining muscle first. The more muscle you have, the more calories you will burn. I go through some extreme cycles, gaining 10-15 lbs, then losing 7-10 lbs. What happens is, when you gain muscle, you will gain a little fat, if you're eating enough food to actually gain muscle. Then you cut the fat, lose a little muscle. Start the cylce over again. In the long run you will gain more muscle, and lose more fat, not over night, I'm talking in terms of months.

If you want to run on the same day as a leg workout, lift first, run second. Your body uses it's short chain energy sources first, then uses the long chain second. If you run first, you will use up your explosive energy, thus leaving you tired for your lifting session.

I train legs 2 days a week most of the time. My routine is: Day 1 arms and back. Day 2 abs and chest. Day 3 legs. Day 4 rest. Day 5 arms and back. Day 6 abs and chest. Day 7 legs. On leg days, if it is my box squat day, I will work upper body inbetween sets. I mix in cardio 2 days a week after lifting, usually on my upper body days, but not always. I'll post my routine in a separate post.

My suggestion would be circuit training for you, superset. Keep the intensity up, rest only 30 seconds between sets for upper body, and 1 minute for legs. If you need details, let me know.

Oh yeah, FYI, 10 mins. of jumping rope is equal to 30 mins of jogging.