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03-10-2008, 02:49 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by johndecena
Actually, I believe it is the other way around. I don't have necessary data to back it up, but from what I HAVE read, good jumpers are good sprinters. But like I said, I don't really have the research.
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From my own personal experience, I'd say it isn't really true. I had a friend in school who was a decent high jumper (better than me anyway) but I would easily destroy his trial track times. Then again, we had a shot putter that had a great vertical and short dash but I would beat him over the remaining distance in 100m.
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Height 5'7 Reach approx 7'0
BW @ 23 Jul 08: 145lbs (>13%bf)
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03-10-2008, 03:02 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by wongkey
What do you guys think of sumo deadlifting? Is it as good as conventional deadlifting? I don't deadlift because I have shorter arms and I have terrible technique. I know I should just get a trainer but it's too expensive for me. Will sumo deadlifting help me in my quest to jump higher? Also what other hamstring exercises do you guys have in mind to increase hamstring strength?
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Well the stress is taken off the lower back and more emphasis is on the glute and hamstrings. I'd say it is a good idea. However, just bear in mind that the ROM is smaller. Not saying that you will definitely find it easier than conventional due to the way it stresses muscles in your legs. Stronger hams are the way to go for most people; strengthening these will usually help you jump higher. For increasing hamstring strength you can try good mornings, SL deadlifts and some form of leg curl exercise (you could try the "natural GHR").
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Height 5'7 Reach approx 7'0
BW @ 23 Jul 08: 145lbs (>13%bf)
Re-training start: Jul 08 (post injury+3 mths rehab)
Vertical Training Forum: www.theverticalsummit.com
Last edited by bluegreyhound : 03-10-2008 at 03:07 PM.
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03-10-2008, 03:09 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by wongkey
What do you guys think of sumo deadlifting? Is it as good as conventional deadlifting? I don't deadlift because I have shorter arms and I have terrible technique. I know I should just get a trainer but it's too expensive for me. Will sumo deadlifting help me in my quest to jump higher? Also what other hamstring exercises do you guys have in mind to increase hamstring strength?
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I wouldn't JUST do sumo's. Use various stances/grips. Sumo is designed to lower the strain on the lower back. As far as your "bad" technique, start with just the bar, get the motion correct, then add weight slowly. You'll get it. My friend had terrible technique, I just couldn't "see" what he was doing wrong. Then one day it just clicked, he was on the ball of his feet, instead of being more flat footed. Something as small as that can throw off the whole lift. The best exercise I have found to isolate the hams, have been box squat variations. This week I am not box squatting, but just loading up the weight for regular squats. I do calves and deadlifts on the same day, as well as some clean and press.
Add strength to your dorsi-flexors, tibialis anterior (shin muscles), abs, back, and feet. Get some Nitric-oxide supplements (L-arginine alpha ketogluterate). It has been shown to speed up fast twitch fibers, and make slow twitch fibers "act" like fast twitch fibers.
As far as plyos, honestly, I only do a few as well. But... I play a lot of ball. The ones I do the most are depth jumps, box jumps, water jumps out of chest high water, jumps with feet pointed outward/inward, ankle jumps, lateral jumps, POWER SKIPPING!, & tuck jumps.
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03-10-2008, 03:12 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by bluegreyhound
From my own personal experience, I'd say it isn't really true. I had a friend in school who was a decent high jumper (better than me anyway) but I would easily destroy his trial track times. Then again, we had a shot putter that had a great vertical and short dash but I would beat him over the remaining distance in 100m.
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Yeah, like I said, I really don't have the research to back that up. I would say there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Good mornings are very good, but it seems like maybe he is trying to take the strain off his lower back??? I would stick with squats, & leg curls. Honestly, if I was training you, I would MAKE you do box squats with light weight, good mornings and deadlifts with light weight until you got it right.
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03-10-2008, 03:18 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by wongkey
Doesn't sprinting recruit more of your fast twitch fibers which is needed to jump higher? So if you sprint more you'll have more fast twitch fibers; is this correct, or am I just waay off.
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Correct to some extent. You need high intensity, ballistic exercises to target the fast twitch muscle fibres, seek muscle fibre adaption etc. However, there can sometimes be too much focus on muscle fibre type. Applying max force in the shortest amount of time while executing perfect technique is how you reach your goal. Depth jumps are closer in technique to your standard approach jump and are more skill specific than sprinting. Something for you to consider..
__________________
Height 5'7 Reach approx 7'0
BW @ 23 Jul 08: 145lbs (>13%bf)
Re-training start: Jul 08 (post injury+3 mths rehab)
Vertical Training Forum: www.theverticalsummit.com
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03-10-2008, 03:21 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by johndecena
Yeah, like I said, I really don't have the research to back that up. I would say there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Good mornings are very good, but it seems like maybe he is trying to take the strain off his lower back??? I would stick with squats, & leg curls. Honestly, if I was training you, I would MAKE you do box squats with light weight, good mornings and deadlifts with light weight until you got it right.
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With the GM you use much lighter weights than with DL; less load on the back but great for hamstring/hip extension. I agree though: do the best exercises with lighter weight and get strong all over in all the right places.
__________________
Height 5'7 Reach approx 7'0
BW @ 23 Jul 08: 145lbs (>13%bf)
Re-training start: Jul 08 (post injury+3 mths rehab)
Vertical Training Forum: www.theverticalsummit.com
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03-10-2008, 03:25 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by bluegreyhound
With the GM you use much lighter weights than with DL; less load on the back but great for hamstring/hip extension. I agree though: do the best exercises with lighter weight and get strong all over in all the right places.
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ABSOLUTELY! You know, work your way up, but start with good technique! Good mornings, straight leg deadlift, deadlift, sumo deadlift, standard box squat, wide box squat, & front squats. WORK YOUR CORE! If you aren't strong in your LOWER abdominals, focus on those first. That by itself can add to your squat and DL strength.
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03-10-2008, 03:25 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by johndecena
As far as plyos, honestly, I only do a few as well. But... I play a lot of ball. The ones I do the most are depth jumps, box jumps, water jumps out of chest high water, jumps with feet pointed outward/inward, ankle jumps, lateral jumps, POWER SKIPPING!, & tuck jumps.
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Yeah, wouldn't do just sumos, but worth trying I'd say. Like most things, give it a go.
Almost forgot, I do some bounding (single and two legs). Power skipping would be good too and those lateral jumps over the cone. Build up to doing depth jumps.
__________________
Height 5'7 Reach approx 7'0
BW @ 23 Jul 08: 145lbs (>13%bf)
Re-training start: Jul 08 (post injury+3 mths rehab)
Vertical Training Forum: www.theverticalsummit.com
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03-10-2008, 03:27 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by bluegreyhound
Yeah, wouldn't do just sumos, but worth trying I'd say. Like most things, give it a go.
Almost forgot, I do some bounding (single and two legs). Power skipping would be good too and those lateral jumps over the cone. Build up to doing depth jumps.
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The power skipping looks silly... but can add a ton of explosiveness.
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03-10-2008, 04:38 PM
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Re: Wongkey's training schedule
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Originally Posted by wongkey
Johndecena and Bluegreyhound, what kind of plyometric exercises do you two do? All I do is 3x10 squat hops, single legged ankle hops and a couple of sprints. I do not have any jump sole shoes, nor do I have platforms that I can jump onto. Do you two have any suggestions for plyometric exercises that does not need any equipment?
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Out of interest why did you choose the exercises that you currently do? What do you man by squat hops? In my opinion, you do not need those jump soles. In fact, they could possibly distract you from executing with proper technique. I can't argue with the calf/achilles tendon overload though.
Just re-read you post on DL. So I take it you already do the sumo style DL and are really wondering if it is ok to stick with just that. To be honest, since you aren't training to be a powerlifter I'd say you should still mix in the conventional DL for vertical training. I have no real hard data to support one over the other but it's just my feeling since conventional style seems closer to jumping (and for those of you that argue we're just trying to strengthen the muscles and not mimic the jumping movement with weights, yes I am aware of that too  ).
__________________
Height 5'7 Reach approx 7'0
BW @ 23 Jul 08: 145lbs (>13%bf)
Re-training start: Jul 08 (post injury+3 mths rehab)
Vertical Training Forum: www.theverticalsummit.com
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