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Chriso · #51 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxfan15

if you want my point of view deadlifts are superior to squats and it has been proven

yeah, i've been hearing this alot, but i've never really tried the deadlift =/

why is this so? any ideas? coz dont they basically work the same muscles anyway?

jaydubc2m · #52 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriso

yeah, i've been hearing this alot, but i've never really tried the deadlift =/

why is this so? any ideas? coz dont they basically work the same muscles anyway?

The deadlift hits the glutes, hams and rest of the Posterior Chain more effectively than squats. Also, because in a heavy deadlift you are pulling from the floor up you are able to more closely mimic that explosive upward movement for a vertical jump. In other words, you can apply your full force on the concentric part of the lift, which is also where you want to apply it in a vertical jump

In a squat you need to control the weight more on the way down which forces you to decelerate significantly on the eccentric portion of the lift. Now clearly when you jump you need to decelerate to some extent to reverse your momentum into the concentric portion of the jump, but not to the same extent as in squatting. Anyone who has ever squatted at high % of their 1RM will know how much you need to control the weight on the way down or end up trapped under the bar on the floor.

Regards

JDub

Chriso · #53 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 10:47 AM

thanks for the reply.. one thing i think is probably a bit cheap about when i do squats is i got kinda like a lil machine thing. it holds the bar in place, and the bar has hooks on theh sides, so you just hook the bar to the height which is comfortable, place some weights, and turn the bar a bit so it doesnt hook, then start squatting. so basically i dont lose my balance =/

redsoxfan15 · #54 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriso

thanks for the reply.. one thing i think is probably a bit cheap about when i do squats is i got kinda like a lil machine thing. it holds the bar in place, and the bar has hooks on theh sides, so you just hook the bar to the height which is comfortable, place some weights, and turn the bar a bit so it doesnt hook, then start squatting. so basically i dont lose my balance =/

ill answer this one if your using like a smith machine that holds the weights for you its not as good and may actually also lead to injury because those things stop you from using your stabilizer muscles which help even make you stronger, but you may use it like once or twice to work on form.

34Waleed34 · #55 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 01:01 PM

I might buy it guys, if my mom doesnt get angry at me today.. i will tell yu guys later

WaLEED34

rangerid · #56 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriso

thanks for the reply.. one thing i think is probably a bit cheap about when i do squats is i got kinda like a lil machine thing. it holds the bar in place, and the bar has hooks on theh sides, so you just hook the bar to the height which is comfortable, place some weights, and turn the bar a bit so it doesnt hook, then start squatting. so basically i dont lose my balance =/

machine stuffs are nto as good as freeweights, they never will be. Sorry i cant find the quote that explains it, its in one of the ebooks i have.

BUt it basically says that machine balances out the weight equally so you dont ahve to, thus making it easier. Like in bench press, a barbell bench is far moer effective than one of those machines where you sit on it and push. But machines are effective i thik for blasting through certain plateaus.

jaydubc2m · #57 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriso

thanks for the reply.. one thing i think is probably a bit cheap about when i do squats is i got kinda like a lil machine thing. it holds the bar in place, and the bar has hooks on theh sides, so you just hook the bar to the height which is comfortable, place some weights, and turn the bar a bit so it doesnt hook, then start squatting. so basically i dont lose my balance =/

Hi Chriso

It sounds like you are talking about a Smith machine. Ranger and Redsox are right, machines are never as good as free weights. The main reason for this is as Ranger pointed out the machine by balancing the weight for you takes away the role of the stabilizer muscles. The stabilizers is a funny term because it implies that there is a whole bunch of tiny muscles whose role it is to keep you balanced. I think the correct way to describe what happens when you use free weights is that yoi umust recruit extra muscles in order to stabilize yourself. If you use a machine you recruit less fibers and therefore get a less effective workout.

Another thing about machines is the plane of motion is usually only up and down. If you watch someone squat or deadlift from the side the bar doesn't move perfectly straight up and down. There is a small amount of play inthe backwards and forward planes. This naturalness of the movement. Some machines are better than others when it comes to this, and newer machines are often designed to replicate the way the movement curves.

Having said all that machines aren't all bad, as Ranger also pointed out, they can be very effectively used to supplement your free weight training as they tend to target the big muscles you want to train rather nicely. Take for example a 45 degree incline leg press. No stabilizers, no upper body, no core,etc and therefore not as good whole body exercise as squats, but by god you can work your legs on it.

If you have ever seen a Ronnie Coleman DVD he trains with freaking heavy Squats, freaking heavy deadlifts, and supplements those two with ridiculously freaking heavy leg presses. Of course Big Ronnie isn't training to jump high either but you get the point.

Jdub

redsoxfan15 · #58 (**permalink**) 07-22-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydubc2m

Hi Chriso

It sounds like you are talking about a Smith machine. Ranger and Redsox are right, machines are never as good as free weights. The main reason for this is as Ranger pointed out the machine by balancing the weight for you takes away the role of the stabilizer muscles. The stabilizers is a funny term because it implies that there is a whole bunch of tiny muscles whose role it is to keep you balanced. I think the correct way to describe what happens when you use free weights is that yoi umust recruit extra muscles in order to stabilize yourself. If you use a machine you recruit less fibers and therefore get a less effective workout.

Another thing about machines is the plane of motion is usually only up and down. If you watch someone squat or deadlift from the side the bar doesn't move perfectly straight up and down. There is a small amount of play inthe backwards and forward planes. This naturalness of the movement. Some machines are better than others when it comes to this, and newer machines are often designed to replicate the way the movement curves.

Having said all that machines aren't all bad, as Ranger also pointed out, they can be very effectively used to supplement your free weight training as they tend to target the big muscles you want to train rather nicely. Take for example a 45 degree incline leg press. No stabilizers, no upper body, no core,etc and therefore not as good whole body exercise as squats, but by god you can work your legs on it.

If you have ever seen a Ronnie Coleman DVD he trains with freaking heavy Squats, freaking heavy deadlifts, and supplements those two with ridiculously freaking heavy leg presses. Of course Big Ronnie isn't training to jump high either but you get the point.

Jdub

good post, im the one who mentioned the stabilizers